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 Post subject: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 12:20 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:29 am
Posts: 996
Ok... Drilled up a cruel, 35x40 @5" pin up, intending for a good back-end reaction. After drilling it up, i threw it on a broken down shot and got a great reaction, flipping nicely, but gotta get it out to flip. Worried me a bit, but decided it didn't need a hole. I get to league, different house, fresh shot. I'd say your THS, oiled about 36 feet or so. Typical stuff. Fresh back ends.

This thing flat out wouldn't hook! I stuck with it all night, because I'm stubborn, and I love throwing my new toys when I get em. I basically had to throw it up the 7 board standing on 20 all night, with a slower than normal speed to make it work, somewhat. I didn't carry very well, nor did I have any room to work with on the lanes. If I got it inside 10, it just slid. If I started in, swinging out, it didn't come back enough.

I like to throw about 17.5 - 18 mph and I guess that makes me speed dominant. Another guy, left handed though, has the same drilling on his Cruel (at least similar... pin up, right above bridge just like me) and he had to get a hole put in his, and it's close to his thumbhole. Not sure what "P" that is...

To make a long story short.... HELP ME!!!
Thanks everyone!

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Jason "Jay Dub" Winchester
Cincinnati, OH

Silver Rx1
Sr2
Primal Impulse
Bad weather ball
Storm Ice Spareball



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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 11:07 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 800
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
What are your pap coordinates? Any chance to get a picture of the ball up? Where is the mb located? I had an Invasion that did the same thing i believe, but i want to see your layout first.

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Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 7:34 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 509
It may be more of a surface adjustment than balance hole placement. I had a similar problem on an aggressively drilled Cruel I have . . then I called the guru, Justin. He recommend I sand it down to 500 grit which I did & it made a significant difference. The layout is strong, the core is strong, and the coverstock is strong. This all added up to the ball wasting all its NRG up front & having nothing for the backends. Try this first & if that does not work, try a P3++ hole, depending on how much side & thumb weight you have. Keep in mind that the Cruel was meant for the heavier oil conditions & NOT for the average THS. If people insist on using for THS then larger drilling angles will be needed. Best of luck!

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Bob "Mick" Michalojko
Colonial Lanes Pro Shop
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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 1:04 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:29 am
Posts: 996
Ok I'm attaching a picture, hopefully it helps to get a visual of the ball. All I have is my cell phone for a camera, but it's not bad. I put some info in the picture as far as PAP MB and all that. To tell the truth, I'm not sure that's the Mass Bias, I'm just assuming because it's a marking on the ball, which looks intentional. Let me know what you guys think. I had to crop the picture down to upload it on here.

Attachment:
Cruel1.jpg
Cruel1.jpg [ 248.47 KiB | Viewed 1089 times ]


I'm sure that I'll first try going down to 1000 on the surface, but I don't have much time to experiment around.

Like I said in the 1st posting... A left-hander I know has this same drilling and he had to add that hole due to little hook. We are both speed dominant, and I'm pretty sure there will be a hole added. His is a "2nd Thumbhole" placement.

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Jason "Jay Dub" Winchester
Cincinnati, OH

Silver Rx1
Sr2
Primal Impulse
Bad weather ball
Storm Ice Spareball



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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 7:34 am 

Joined: Fri Dec 11, 2009 12:00 pm
Posts: 13
Location: levis, qc. canada
ok, i have the exact same PAP coordinates as you with just about the same drilling (about 40x5x50) and had the same problem. I bowl where there is quite a bit of oil and after bringing it down to 2000 abralon, the ball is now just amazing. The box finish says 2000 but the hybrid formula makes it more shinny I guess. You have more speed than me so I would consider the 1000 grit. You probably dont have enough side weight to add a P3 hole... hope this helps...

Yanick

GT1
QZ1
TZ3
Cruel
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Keep the good stuff coming Motiv...


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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 10:25 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 800
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
Yep, that's the layout I have in my Invasion. Just identical. I've never added a hole, but a p3 hole might wake it up. i would definately go to 1000 grit, or, if that turns out too aggressive (or early), try starting with 500 grit Abralon for 15 seconds on all 4 sides, then hit it with a grey scotch-brite on all 4 sides for about 30 seconds each. that will produce an approximate 1500 grit finish.
This layout definitely does not favor speed dominant styles. A 4" pin to pap would be better.

Good luck in your efforts with this ball. Let us know what works.

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Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:27 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
The 35 degree drilling angle is extremely low. This will make a block as strong as the Cruel unload quickly.

Before placing a hole, try and hit it with 1k Abralon.

Also, the oil rings on the surface of the ball after you throw it, approximately how far apart are they?


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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:47 am 

Joined: Sun Jan 31, 2010 6:29 am
Posts: 996
I actually couldn't see the oil rings. Nothing showed up on this ball at all, that I could see. I'm going to the driller today and we'll hit it up with 1000 abralon first and then see how it does. P3 hole then if it's not enough. I want this ball to be my monster.

Also, I have this same layout on my Virtual Gravity, and that worked pretty well for me. I know they're different balls, but as I'm moving Motiv in and moving Storm out, I'm trying to keep my arsenal similar.

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Jason "Jay Dub" Winchester
Cincinnati, OH

Silver Rx1
Sr2
Primal Impulse
Bad weather ball
Storm Ice Spareball



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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 11:54 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
The cover is strong, but there should be something left on the surface. it may just be a case of too much ball for the shot.

Remember monster hookers create a ton of friction, they need oil. Especially with a super early layout like you have.

The 1k Abralon should help a bit, but if you don't have enough oil volume it will appear to make it worse.


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 Post subject: Re: Where to put the hole on my Cruel?
PostPosted: Mon Oct 18, 2010 5:29 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 800
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
My only other thought about this ball would be to ask Justin if the P3 hole should actually be lower than the line between the PAP and PSA; the CG is very close to the PSA mark, so even though we know static weights don't affect the roll a bunch, my impulse is that there is too much early roll because of the block being so close to the cover under this part of the ball. I don't think Mo ever talks about moving the hole off of the line, but there has to be a ton of thumb weight in this ball.

But, P3 is definitely the hole to use.

_________________
Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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