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 Post subject: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Mon Nov 22, 2010 11:15 am 

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 18
I am new to this forum and to Motiv. I currently do not own nor have I used any Motiv equipment.
I currently use Storm and Hammer. I bowl a lot of tournaments mostly on the Kegal challenge patterns.
Now for my questions:
I have been watching some of the You tube videos and have seen quite a few references to the 120 degree drilling. I do not have anything drilled with this pattern. I was thinking about buying a Motive and using this drilling, 120 x 15 x 6 on a Cruel. And I wanted this boards opinion. I am looking for something for fresh tournament conditions, 40 to 43 feet in length sport shots, very little taper and some very flat. Also would like something for later in the block when moving deep. Maybe a QZ2.

Stats:
17.3 measured at 15 feet
350 to 380 rev rate
right handed
4 7/8 x 3/4 down

Current balls in the bag
Storm:
Prodigy-Virtual Energy-Gravity Shift-Reign Supreme-Fast-Natural
Hammer:
Emerald Vibe-Midnight Vibe
Columbia:
Freeze

Thanks to all for reading and I look forward to your response.


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 2:08 pm 

Joined: Tue Mar 02, 2010 11:06 am
Posts: 328
Location: Houston
To help keep people from repeating this discution, please refer to this post on this information.

thanks

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=1302

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Gt1 - 1-300 1-289 1-287 1-280 5-279
Rx1(Orange)
Sr2 - 1-290 1-279
Tv4 added!50x45@4.75" - 1-289 2-279
Venom Toxin MOtion hole 1-276 1-300(p)
4 - 300's 1 practice
high series 791-796-785-824


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:55 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 18
Thanks for the link. Very good read.


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Tue Nov 23, 2010 3:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
For your stats, it wouldn't be advisable. Especially for the higher volume and flatter sport patterns.


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 1:05 am 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:29 pm
Posts: 304
Location: Massillon, OH
Yeah I would stick to pin under layouts and get the 120+ that way. I can speek for everyone on the forum and say don't drill it leverage!!!!!! The 120x6x15 would be like buying a Ferrari and setting the cruise control to 35. With your specs on the cruel I would lean more to a 4 1/2 to 5 1/2 pin more to the 5 1/2. As I'm thinking of it, a layout poped into my head. I just layed it out with your PAP and a 50x5.5x65 would put your pin just under the bridge and just over to the left a touch. The Mass bias between your thumb and VAL, giving you a load of tweeks to make it just how you want it. Before using it in any competition try surface changes before you add the weight hole. Us it on the condition you ment the ball to be for, and when you get the ball to start to read the lane the way you want decide on the location of the weight hole. Be patient, the best bowling balls I've ever had took several small tweeks untill it became the killer ball I wanted. Only ever had one react just the way I wanted right off the press with no surface changes or hole tweeks

Be advised the cruel is a strong ball with a strong cover, I know I can't use mine on anything less then 39 feet, even with a ton of polish.

All that being said I have mine drilled with a 60x5.5x10 and it rolls smooth with a sweet roll into the pins. But I layed it out to be mellow, and my rev rate is about 50+ yours.

I hope this helps you out, and I know you'll love the Cruel with your specs.

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RX1s 60x6x70
QZ2 1 inch pin to pap
Thrash 1 inch pin to pap
QZ2 BACKDRAFT 60x5x65
TZ3 70x5.5x30
Primal Impulse 90x3.5x55
Primal Impulse 75x5.5x40
Sigma Tour 80x5.5x40
Raptor Attack 95x5.25x30
Raptor P7 45x4.5x30 P1

More not listed!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 3:20 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 18
captmike02

What is the boomer layout you have in your sig? What does it do and how do you lay it out? Also what type of reaction do you get from the 120 you have on the other GT1? What lane conditions are they best on?

Thanks for the suggestions


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Wed Nov 24, 2010 11:34 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:29 pm
Posts: 304
Location: Massillon, OH
http://www.bowlingball.com/BowlVersity/a-trio-of-way-out-layouts-january-2010-shop-talk-by-dennis-bergendorf


Check this out for the Boomer.

The Boomer for me helps get length when I have early friction up front or in the mids. The surface of the ball becomes the main force with the boomer layout, strong surface stronger read when it hits the backend. It GT1 boomer workes best on medium oil 37-40 foot patterns. On house shots with the friction on the outside it reacts a lot like a strong urethane on the house shots back in the 80's. My RX1 boomer however gets length no matter the shot... hahahaha. You can see it on my youtube videos. Did shoot 690 with it on the viper over the summer. It's an interesting layout and if you can get a ball cheap then try it for fun and see if you can match up with it.

The 120x4x15...... Well you have to keep in mind that its a symmetrical core and the main factor of that drilling is the 4 inch pin to PAP. Being 15* from the VAL helps get the ball moving quick at the spot, but the 120 is not really a factor. The cg being in the negative and the hole on the top of the core only helps tame the reaction some. I can actuly use it on anything with some volume of oil. Medium heavy house shots and sport shots. I also have a vid on youtube with that ball, check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/user/qtey2002?feature=mhum

Check out the Cheetah vid for the boomer RX1.

Good luck,

Mike

_________________
Motiv Staff


RX1s 60x6x70
QZ2 1 inch pin to pap
Thrash 1 inch pin to pap
QZ2 BACKDRAFT 60x5x65
TZ3 70x5.5x30
Primal Impulse 90x3.5x55
Primal Impulse 75x5.5x40
Sigma Tour 80x5.5x40
Raptor Attack 95x5.25x30
Raptor P7 45x4.5x30 P1

More not listed!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 4:08 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 18
captmike02

I watched all of your videos. I can see that I will be ordering an RX1 and put on the boomer layout. It is what I need on the short patterns. I like the type reaction it gives.


Thanks


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Sep 28, 2009 10:29 pm
Posts: 304
Location: Massillon, OH
Sounds good, Go with the longest pin you can and 2-3 oz top weight. Also don't go any closer then 2 1/2 to the back of the thumb. I did one once that was 2 1/4 and it ticked the thumb every shot no matter how the release was. Drill the fingers shallow. You will definitley have a different reaction, good luck. Hope it works for you.

Mike

_________________
Motiv Staff


RX1s 60x6x70
QZ2 1 inch pin to pap
Thrash 1 inch pin to pap
QZ2 BACKDRAFT 60x5x65
TZ3 70x5.5x30
Primal Impulse 90x3.5x55
Primal Impulse 75x5.5x40
Sigma Tour 80x5.5x40
Raptor Attack 95x5.25x30
Raptor P7 45x4.5x30 P1

More not listed!!!


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 Post subject: Re: Question on the 120 degree layout
PostPosted: Thu Nov 25, 2010 11:14 pm 

Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 10:57 am
Posts: 18
Thanks for that info. I just ordered a Recon RX1. I asked for a 4.5 to 5.5 pin. Hope to get it before league Tuesday night.Will let you know how it works out.

I will probable order another one and drill it like one of your others. Either the 60 x 4.5 x 30 or the 70 x 4.5 x 30. May wait and get the Silver one for this drill.

Well this starts the new Motiv arsenal.


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