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 Post subject: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:58 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:02 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Newton, MA
hey motivnation,
I cant wait for monday night when i get my primal tv4. I need some layout help and explanation please.
here are my stats and 2 layouts i am looking at

i want this for longer oil patterns and i usually bowl on med to heavy oil lanes.

16mph, 270 revs, 14-16 tilt, 60ish axis rotaiton
below is a link to a video of my release. thanks guys.

layout 1
45 x 4.25 x 65 p2.5 or p3 hole
pin under ring finger


layout 2
65x 3.5 x 30 p2.5 hole
ending with 1/2 oz top weight and 1/2oz side weight

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmnGScua9l0

how would these react on longer oil patterns?
and also shorter patterns or house shots?

i know am asking a lot but this forum is the best place for motiv advice. thanks a ton guys


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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 1:23 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Your ball movement and overall line is very similar to mine. You flirt a little more with the 3 and 4 board than I care to, but overall it's very similar, I would be interested in what they come up with for you as well, I need a long roller, which is hard when you have lower revs...

-Pat


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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 4:42 pm 

Joined: Wed Nov 18, 2009 8:06 am
Posts: 141
I think I have very similar ball speed as you but maybe a bit more roll. I play a touch deeper than you on fresh with my Primal 45 x 4.5" x 45 it hit hard so far & the recovery is excellent when missed left or right so far. You may try it out...


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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 7:15 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:58 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Countdown County FLA
jeez i wish my house has a bounce like that, if i throw it there on my THS bye bye ball helllooooooooooooo washout...

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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:10 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 806
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
If it helps, I just punched one up 30 by 4" by 25' and it is a monster! This ball reminds me a lot of my first Virtual Gravity, drilled 4" by 4" with a 2" pin buffer. I know those are really small angles, but I needed to prove to myself, and others, what an angular look this ball can provide. I added a P1 hole to make it legal, taking the positive side weight back to under 1/2 ounce. This is a very strong layout, with a strong backend motion.
Good luck with your lay out; remember that a P1 hole will give you angularity by delaying your reaction, and a P3 hole will make it roll earlier and rounder off the spot.

_________________
Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2011 7:35 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 08, 2010 3:02 pm
Posts: 79
Location: Newton, MA
plamormick wrote:
If it helps, I just punched one up 30 by 4" by 25' and it is a monster! This ball reminds me a lot of my first Virtual Gravity, drilled 4" by 4" with a 2" pin buffer. I know those are really small angles, but I needed to prove to myself, and others, what an angular look this ball can provide. I added a P1 hole to make it legal, taking the positive side weight back to under 1/2 ounce. This is a very strong layout, with a strong backend motion.
Good luck with your lay out; remember that a P1 hole will give you angularity by delaying your reaction, and a P3 hole will make it roll earlier and rounder off the spot.


i love layout with pins around a 30degree to val. i have a marvel and an rx1 with this val angle. marvel is 45x 3 3/8 x 35 and recon is 70 x 4.25 x 30.

i have a jacked and a c system 4.5 with with a 45 x 4.25 x 45. i do like that layout but wanted to go in an opposite direction with this tv4, either pin down 45 x 4.25 x 70 or a 65 x 3 3/4 x 30. i have solid balls with these layouts but not a pearl. because i tend to bowl on havier volumes i was think of 30 to val.

when the mids start breaking down how will that layout react?
is the 30 to val bette for fresh and the pin under better for cary down?

thanks a ton guys.

also is it true that on a symmetrical ball the placement of a cg really has no relevance to reaction initially but where it is placed will determine if there is a balance hole or not?
and the gradient line for a symmetrical regardless of cg placement is always from your pap to the thumb hole not 6.25" through cg cause after a symmetrical ball is drilled the PSA is usually on the thumb(according to m pinel)


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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 7:07 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 806
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
i love layout with pins around a 30degree to val. i have a marvel and an rx1 with this val angle. marvel is 45x 3 3/8 x 35 and recon is 70 x 4.25 x 30. I'd venture to say that the Marvel is super strong, with a monster backend movement, and that the RX1 is long with a neat pop.

i have a jacked and a c system 4.5 with with a 45 x 4.25 x 45. i do like that layout but wanted to go in an opposite direction with this tv4, either pin down 45 x 4.25 x 70 or a 65 x 3 3/4 x 30. i have solid balls with these layouts but not a pearl. because i tend to bowl on havier volumes i was think of 30 to val.I see where you would want to fill in some gaps with a pearl, but the TV4 is so strong, it is tough for me to remember the cover is pearl. I would agree that the 30 degree val would be what I'd lean toward, also.

when the mids start breaking down how will that layout react?By 'that reaction', did you mean my TV4, or the 65X3 3/4x30? When the mids blow up, i change away from my TV4 here; I usually change to a shiny pearl with a longish pin to pap, but still has a short val angle (I like the quick pop reaction-- I know, it's an addiction), or change to my HyRoad and play around 4th arrow or so.

is the 30 to val bette for fresh and the pin under better for cary down?
I would agree with both of those statements in my limited experience; maybe Justin can chime in with his observations, too?
thanks a ton guys.

also is it true that on a symmetrical ball the placement of a cg really has no relevance to reaction initially but where it is placed will determine if there is a balance hole or not? Yep, 'cause USBC hasn't updated the 'static legal' rules yet.
and the gradient line for a symmetrical regardless of cg placement is always from your pap to the thumb hole not 6.25" through cg cause after a symmetrical ball is drilled the PSA is usually on the thumb(according to m pinel) Justin actually covered this a couple of threads ago, and summed it up very nicely. I believe he said that using the thumb hole as the PSA reference point would make any balance hole create more dynamic reaction changes, whereas using the "assumed PSA" (as I call it), the line from the pin, thru the CG 6 3/4" will create smoother changes to ball reaction with regard to balance hole placement. Justin, please correct if I have misspoke here. Thanks.[/quote]
BTW, lots of really good questions here- I think you are very in tune with your arsenal and involved with the drilling of your pieces. Good job.

_________________
Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 8:06 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
I was in PA at Bob's tournament, so I didn't have much PC time this weekend. I just got home, I'll go over this in a few.


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 Post subject: Re: NEED Primal TV4 layout advice
PostPosted: Mon Feb 28, 2011 9:49 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
mmaloney23 wrote:
is the 30 to val bette for fresh and the pin under better for cary down?


Pin up/Small VAL angle executes a faster second transition. This tends to create a more angular reaction.
Pin down/large VAL angle executes a slower second transition. This tends to create a smoother reaction.

Generally fresh will like faster transitions, break down will like longer transition. This assumes the same pin distance. Sometimes when you really want to open up the lane, a fast transitioning ball can be an asset.


mmaloney23 wrote:
also is it true that on a symmetrical ball the placement of a cg really has no relevance to reaction initially but where it is placed will determine if there is a balance hole or not?
and the gradient line for a symmetrical regardless of cg placement is always from your pap to the thumb hole not 6.25" through cg cause after a symmetrical ball is drilled the PSA is usually on the thumb(according to m pinel)


Check this thread:


viewtopic.php?f=8&t=2735


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