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 Post subject: cruel le
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:23 am 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 4:11 pm
Posts: 120
what will the new cruel le do different then the cruel? Hook more?


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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 3:37 pm 

Joined: Sun Aug 29, 2010 9:36 am
Posts: 125
From little info out there seems like it will go a little longer but have more backend.but that's just a few rumors,not hard facts.

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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:46 am 

Joined: Sun May 23, 2010 4:11 pm
Posts: 120
I curently us a 15lb cruel c51. I'm 65yrs. 185 league adv. I love the cruel, however with my 13mph ball speed, i'm going to get a 14lb. cruel..slow ball speed and low revs. I'm thinking cruel LE..any thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 11:46 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Tallahassee, FL
oviewan wrote:
I curently us a 15lb cruel c51. I'm 65yrs. 185 league adv. I love the cruel, however with my 13mph ball speed, i'm going to get a 14lb. cruel..slow ball speed and low revs. I'm thinking cruel LE..any thoughts?



From what I've been able to gleam about the LE, this won't be a bad idea. I'm a slow ball speed, low rev player also. I will definately be getting the LE.

I would think hard about the 14 lb. Thing though, as you decrease weight, you lose kinetic energy and effect pin carry through the pocket. If you have pretty strong accuracy you can get away with this, but if you rely on the ball to pick up strikes for you when you miss slightly, the lighter ball will exaggerate this flaw. It's still a very reactive, asymmetrical core design after all.

-Pat


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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 4:23 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
Migraine777 wrote:
I would think hard about the 14 lb. Thing though, as you decrease weight, you lose kinetic energy and effect pin carry through the pocket.


The gain he will see in ball speed will significantly increase the energy at the pins, outweighing the lighter weight. I would highly recommend switching to a 14lb ball. 13MPH is too slow for effective carry, you should see 14-15MPH with the lighter weight.





I sit at around 500 RPM, and use 14s normally. I use 13s occasionally to increase deflection so I can carry a 9 pin.


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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:58 pm 

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Tallahassee, FL
JustinWi wrote:

The gain he will see in ball speed will significantly increase the energy at the pins, outweighing the lighter weight. I would highly recommend switching to a 14lb ball. 13MPH is too slow for effective carry, you should see 14-15MPH with the lighter weight.




You really think the 1 lb. Is worth 2-3 mph? I've never seen a stat on the expected change when dropping a pound.

Secondly.....won't he need to change layouts to accommodate the new speed?

-Pat


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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 7:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
Migraine777 wrote:
You really think the 1 lb. Is worth 2-3 mph? I've never seen a stat on the expected change when dropping a pound.


In practice, yes.


Migraine777 wrote:
Secondly.....won't he need to change layouts to accommodate the new speed?

-Pat


A bit, but not as much as you think. The lower weight will result in higher speed, but also more leverage. The ratio of speed/revs will remain very close. Therefore layouts do not need to be significantly adjusted.

He will however have to adjust layouts when trying to duplicate reaction across weights, because the mass properties change based on density adjustments. A bit of research on how the numbers change between the weights will allow you to adjust the layout accordingly. Generally, a .25" adjustment of the pin distance will suffice based on which way the diff changes.








This is a post I found with some basic math to support (taken from http://forum.bowlingchat.net/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1973):


mozarkian wrote:
To a bowler the important part of the law of conservation of energy is that the energy in our ball when it hits the pins is the result of its weight (mass) times the speed (velocity) squared. This means that a 14 lb. ball traveling at 18 m.p.h. has an energy of 14x18x18, 4536 and a 16 lb. ball at 15 m.p.h. has an energy of 16x15x15, 3600. This tells us that the 14 pounder at 18 m.p.h. hits the pins with a force 25% greater than a 16 pounder at 15 m.p.h.


To apply the above formula to our situation:

14x14x14=2744 14lb ball, 14MPH
14x15x15=3150 14lb ball, 15MPH
15x13x13=2535 15lb ball, 13MPH
15x14x14=2940 15lb ball, 14MPH

As you can see even a 1MPH gain, even with the drop in weight, will result in an 8% increase in energy at the pins.


*Disclaimer* I'm not a mathematician or a physicist. If any of you are, please correct any errors in the above data.


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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 8:43 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:58 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Countdown County FLA
i never thought you could have too much knowledge when it comes to bowling but damn Justin you are a book full of bowling knowledge that has yet to have an ending page....

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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:17 pm 

Joined: Fri Dec 31, 2010 12:07 pm
Posts: 340
Location: Texas
Ok no physics or science here but just a PHD in the school of hard knocks. I started bowling with a 15# Track 505T my speed was 14 mph. I switched to a 14# Cruel I gained 2-3 MPH and around 75-85 more revs prior (14/300) now (16-17/350-400) It helped me and my hand has healed. So I agree with dropping. I am calm and only stating what has happened to me please don't take my responce as sarcism or anger. again I am very calm very calm indeed.

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 Post subject: Re: cruel le
PostPosted: Tue Mar 08, 2011 3:20 am 

Joined: Fri Feb 04, 2011 9:51 pm
Posts: 120
Location: Tallahassee, FL
*raises hand* I have a physics degree! Your formula is correct, F= ma(2). However it does not take into effect 2 major factors when talking about strike potential. 1.) coefficient of friction. 2.) defelection energy. (kinetic energy).

2 major factors when talking about lighter balls.
I agree that the J (jewels) of energy may be the same at the moment of impact, the friction and energy (carry) may be drastically different *after* impact, deriving a very different reaction... These variables are based biasedly on the weight of the ball and the coefficient of friction for that given weight on the lane surface.

I will agree in practical application that it makes sense more speed equals more carry by a simple equation, in the case of bowling, it isn't simply an equation that produces results.

My *, yet mathematically sound example is that anyone that could throw a seven pound ball 25 mph could create the same pin movement and carry as has been described. There's your mathematical 4400 jewels of force but in an over exaggerated example showing the pack of frictional relation to the equation.

Not to say you're completely wrong about any of it, but to make sure you don't make the dangerous assumption that the formula for any bowling ball is a linear equation based on the speed and weight of the ball in question.

-Pat


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