MOTIV

Username: Log me on automatically each visit
Password:
It is currently Sat Oct 25, 2014 9:04 pm


Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 10 posts ]
Author Message
 Post subject: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 1:01 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 20, 2010 10:35 pm
Posts: 27
The owner of the pro shop i work at came back from bowl expo with news that the P1 P2 and P3 locations changed. i understand how to find them with the new measurments but i dont understand how it is more effective than the old weight hole system. any insight would be greatly appreciated.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:38 am 

Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 7:58 am
Posts: 24
Justin!!!!! You got some explaining to do....


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:21 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:04 am
Posts: 102
Location: Coldwater, Michigan
Justin had addressed this issue before about the gradient line and hole locations changing.

viewtopic.php?f=8&t=4271


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 11:26 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
The only thing that has changed is the locations of the holes, not their effect. Old P1 locations are pretty close to P2.

The reason this is more effective is that when you drill a hole on an axis, it lowers the RG value of that axis. The new P1 location is as close the the Intermediate RG axis as can be flare safe. 6.75" from PSA on the VAL, because the High Rg axis(PSA Indicator) is 90* to both the Low Rg axis(Major Pin) and Intermediate Rg axis(Not marked).

Edited for clarification and accuracy


Last edited by JustinWi on Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 7:59 pm 

Joined: Fri May 06, 2011 10:01 pm
Posts: 40
whats differences in reaction do you get with the different hole locations?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 8:42 pm 

Joined: Sat May 21, 2011 7:58 am
Posts: 24
Justin, just for clarification....this new system of hole placement is only different for Asymmetrical core balls correct?

Symmetrical core balls still fall under the old gradient line format. Correct?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 07, 2011 9:43 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
On symmetrical balls after drilling, the PSA ends up near the thumb. I'll use a spot just below the thumb for P4, and use a spot 6.75" from this on the VAL for P1.

As to what they do...

P1 -20% differential
P2 No change
P3 +20% differential
P4 +40% differential

These placements effect both the total diff and intermediate diff, so they modify diff ratios as well.


JustinWi wrote:
A P1 hole decreases differential which reduces flare and dynamic instability, which promotes energy retention. If a ball expends less energy flaring, it will have more to release when it sees friction.

A P3/P4 hole increases the differential which increases flare and dynamic instability, which promotes an earlier release of energy. If a ball is flaring more, it bleeds energy sooner and has a smoother response to friction.

In practice with the equipment of today, you have to get your initial layout close, and then fine tune with a balance hole. A balance hole can help, but not always fix, a bad initial layout. I have seen that a P1 increases backend when a ball checks early, and a P3/P4 placement promotes earlier and smoother, which can end up hooking more overall in some situations.

I also have an alternate position that I use in certain cases. 2" down the VAL from PAP, but only on symmetrics. Sometimes when I want a Sym to roll sooner, I place this hole. The drilled PSA shifts towards the hole and decreases the final drilling angle. P3 and P4 holes in syms give them more of an asymmetric type of roll.


And remember, surface is still the number 1 factor in ball reaction.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:37 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:10 am
Posts: 3
nycmotivbowler wrote:
Justin, just for clarification....this new system of hole placement is only different for Asymmetrical core balls correct?

Symmetrical core balls still fall under the old gradient line format. Correct?


Justin wasn't so exact with the answer even though his explanation is dead on. No, Symmetricals follow the same gradient line rules as asymmetrical. The reason being is that once you put holes in a symmetrical ball, its no longer symmetrical, its asymmetrical.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Thu Jul 21, 2011 8:58 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 11, 2010 3:58 pm
Posts: 405
Location: Countdown County FLA
+1

MeNoRevs wrote:
nycmotivbowler wrote:
Justin, just for clarification....this new system of hole placement is only different for Asymmetrical core balls correct?

Symmetrical core balls still fall under the old gradient line format. Correct?


Justin wasn't so exact with the answer even though his explanation is dead on. No, Symmetricals follow the same gradient line rules as asymmetrical. The reason being is that once you put holes in a symmetrical ball, its no longer symmetrical, its asymmetrical.

_________________
Jason Drouin
"StickZ"
Self-Proclaimed
House Hack Motiv Staff =)


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: New weight hole placements
PostPosted: Sun Jul 24, 2011 11:42 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
In symmetrical balls, the after drilling PSA with no hole placed will end up within a half an inch of the centerline, 6.75" from the pin. The only way to truly lock down the exact PSA is to spin them on a determinator, a few cores in the past got wonky when hit just right but nothing of recent memory.

So once we apply the gradient line to a drilled symmetrical ball, most times the P4 location ends up just about in the thumb to place the gradient line.

On symmetrical balls there is an alternative placement as well. A good sized hole 2" down the VAL. This drags the PSA away from the thumb and towards the hole, reducing the drilling angle significantly. Stronger pin placements combined with this hole placement will create earlier ball motion.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post a new topicPost a reply Page 1 of 1   [ 10 posts ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group

MOTIV