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 Post subject: Asymmetrical vs. Symmetrical - Full Roller
PostPosted: Wed Jul 13, 2011 9:20 am 

Joined: Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:38 am
Posts: 308
Location: Orlando, FL
Just thinking. My driller wanted to experiment with a full roller layout with my style of bowling (two finger palmer). So we plugged up my GT1 and he drilled it full roller. This ball/layout is now my strongest ball. By strong i'm meaning: Builds up a lot of energy and has the most aggressive continuous backend i've ever had in a ball. To most people, full roller is a gradually arcing ball. And for me, this ball retains its energy and gets down the lanes with a very aggressive continuous backend.

Now since the GT1 is a Symmetrical core, I was wondering how an OG Cruel with the Asymmetrical core would react compared to the GT1. Since my OG Cruel and LE Cruel are very similar in reaction, I think i'm going to get it plugged and give it a shot hoping i'm going to get a similar aggressive motion.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, do you think this will work? Or will the core of the Cruel be way too strong for this layout to re-create the similar motion as my GT1?

My stats if needed:
Axis - Horizontal, 4-3/4 Right. Vertical, 2-1/2 Down. I’d say I’m a Medium-High rev player with about a 16-17mph roll.

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Raptor P7 | Cruel LE | OG Cruel | Primal TV4 | SR2 | Recon RX1s | QZ1p | TX1 | GT1


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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical vs. Symmetrical - Full Roller
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 8:26 am 

Joined: Fri Jan 28, 2011 4:18 pm
Posts: 179
I don't have a clue how to answer this but it does bring up an interesting question. What exactly is a full roller? I see it all the time on the drilling charts but have never seen a definition for it or seen one thrown as far as I know. What does a full roller[color=#000000] look like going down the lane? How does one throw a full roller? Is the shape of the shot entirely different? Are there any advantages to throwing a [color=#FFFF00]full roller? [/color][/color]Didn't mean to intrude on your question but it just struck me that I wouldn't know a full roller[color=#FFFF00] if it walked in the door.[/color]


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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical vs. Symmetrical - Full Roller
PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2011 8:52 am 

Joined: Wed Jul 20, 2011 1:10 am
Posts: 3
mralbin0 wrote:
Just thinking. My driller wanted to experiment with a full roller layout with my style of bowling (two finger palmer). So we plugged up my GT1 and he drilled it full roller. This ball/layout is now my strongest ball. By strong i'm meaning: Builds up a lot of energy and has the most aggressive continuous backend i've ever had in a ball. To most people, full roller is a gradually arcing ball. And for me, this ball retains its energy and gets down the lanes with a very aggressive continuous backend.

Now since the GT1 is a Symmetrical core, I was wondering how an OG Cruel with the Asymmetrical core would react compared to the GT1. Since my OG Cruel and LE Cruel are very similar in reaction, I think i'm going to get it plugged and give it a shot hoping i'm going to get a similar aggressive motion.

I guess what I'm trying to ask is, do you think this will work? Or will the core of the Cruel be way too strong for this layout to re-create the similar motion as my GT1?

My stats if needed:
Axis - Horizontal, 4-3/4 Right. Vertical, 2-1/2 Down. I’d say I’m a Medium-High rev player with about a 16-17mph roll.


I wanted to correct you on some things, and explain some things at the same time.

Definition of a strong ball is how fast a ball goes from skid to hook. The faster the ball goes from the 1st transition to the 2nd transition, the stronger the ball reaction. So for a ball to go long and hook hard in the backend, its not necessarily the strongest ball reaction, but its the strongest backend movement you have. Which sometimes is not the best thing!

The Cruel should start up sooner because of the strength of the core (the strong int diffs)


If you look at a symmetrical core ball undrilled, the Intermediate diff is 0.00, but after drilling with a basic full roller layout, it goes to 0.007 and a ratio of 15%

With the same drilling of a basic asymmetrical ball, the Int. Diff jumps to .019. A BIG difference. And if you really want to explode the Int. Diffs, then go with the new aggressive full roller layout with a balance hole, and the Int. Diffs explode to .032!

In short, the higher the Int. Diffs, the more the ball can flare, and the more the can flare, the earlier the ball can transition and more potential of hook!

Hope that helps

I have not seen a full roller from a 2 finger bowler, do you put your thumb in half way? We call those Detroit half thumbers. All the full rollers that hook the ball usually use this release...


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 Post subject: Re: Asymmetrical vs. Symmetrical - Full Roller
PostPosted: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:42 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:09 pm
Posts: 353
Location: Metro Detroit
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5992

Here is a link to an older thread that discussed a similar topic. There is a link in that thread that explains a full roller layout.

http://www.bowlingball.com/products/bow ... or-P7.html

Check out the drilling tab at the bottom of the page for the Raptor P7 on bowlingball.com, it shows a the pin/cg locations and track area of a full roller.

I drill up everything fuller roller, all my honor scores are with full roller layouts. I'm not sure how you would produce a track thru the center of you're grip using only 2 fingers and no thumb. Any chance of a video of your release?

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Jon Ellert
Basement Bowlers Pro Shop


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