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 Post subject: Primal and Cruel Layouts .....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:55 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:39 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Swindon, UK
I am after some advice ......
i have a primal and a cruel which i bought earlier this year for use in heavy oil. I dont know a great deal about layouts etc and so have been lead by my driller. I have a Recon and a QZ2 and they both move well for me in medium conditions (if anything the recon is easier to move). However the Cruel and the Primal (especially)seem to move less than the other 2! The guy that drilled them said that they should move in heavy oil, cruel should arc and the primal would go longer but then snap........ i can use the Primal to pick up 10 pins...... can you advise if they are the correct layouts or if if am doing something wrong with my release etc? I am averaging over 200 in the UK in tournements and leagues but just cant get these to work... your input would be great.
Right Hander, 15-16mph, approx 280-300rpm
i have asked about my PAP and it is 4 5/8 right 1/8up (?if that makes sense?)


Attachments:
Cruel.jpg
Cruel.jpg [ 21.39 KiB | Viewed 1122 times ]
QZ2.jpg
QZ2.jpg [ 22.64 KiB | Viewed 1124 times ]
Recon.jpg
Recon.jpg [ 18.34 KiB | Viewed 1119 times ]

_________________
Cruel
Primal
QZ2
GT1
QZ1
Recon Silver
Recon (orange)
Alien Spare ball


Last edited by PipWellsteed on Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:58 am, edited 3 times in total.
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 Post subject: Re: Primal and Cruel Layouts .....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 8:56 am 

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:39 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Swindon, UK
and the primal .....


Attachments:
Primal.jpg
Primal.jpg [ 21.73 KiB | Viewed 1114 times ]

_________________
Cruel
Primal
QZ2
GT1
QZ1
Recon Silver
Recon (orange)
Alien Spare ball
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 Post subject: Re: Primal and Cruel Layouts .....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:09 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 806
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
I'll take a crack at it...
The Primal doesn't snap. The Thrust core is a super smooth, roll-y type core. I don't know if a P1 hole would help with that, but if you don't see much movement now, that wouldn't make sense. Try to adjust the surface to a lower grit to gain some movement.

The Cruel, unfortunately, will most likely need some plug work. You could try plugging the balance hole first, and move it to a P1 location. Right now, the balance hole is in the P4 spot, enhancing the differential a ton, and the ball most likely is burning up the rotational energy very, very quickly. I'll be it doesn't have any backend, right? It is burned up by 30 to 40 feet I'd guess.

That's where I'd start.
If the surface change on the Primal doesn't help, let us know. There are a couple of things we could do from there.

_________________
Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Post subject: Re: Primal and Cruel Layouts .....
PostPosted: Mon Jul 18, 2011 1:33 pm 

Joined: Mon Feb 14, 2011 12:50 pm
Posts: 1204
Location: San Antonio, TX
I know how you feel regarding the Primal and it being really smooth. I had this problem initially and what I did was take it down to 800 and it's been great.

Still very smooth, but definitely moves and still retains lots of energy for the backend. It makes for some pretty strikes and loud pop sounds, which is what I love cause then you have everyone looking over at you like what the hell did you just do? Haha!

Not sure if you want to go down to 800, but you could try 1K first. I did that, but I desired just a bit more movement and got it with the 800.

As for the Cruel, not sure about that one cause I don't own one myself.


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 Post subject: Re: Primal and Cruel Layouts .....
PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2011 12:29 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
On the Cruel, can you snap a pic of where the oval ended up? Labels are telling as well. Appears to be a small drilling angle with a crater in the P2.5 position, increasing the differential ratio resulting in transitions that are far too fast to be playable on anything short of straighter angles on a flood for a speed dominant player. At 15-16MPH:270RPM you are a tick speed dominant, but not enough to make this layout effective.

Primal - Smoother than expected. Appears to be a short VAL angle that would make the ball transition very fast, resulting in a great midlane read but little backend.


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 Post subject: Re: Primal and Cruel Layouts .....
PostPosted: Wed Aug 10, 2011 5:33 pm 

Joined: Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:39 pm
Posts: 7
Location: Swindon, UK
Justin, I will try and get some more pictures of the cruel up ASAP. I love the shape and hitting power that I get with the layout on the recon, I have no doubt in my drillers ability to drill me a ball that fits but starting to question layout for me with Motiv ......
I am keen to get a raptor and also a backdraft and my opinion is to have the same layout as the recon on both raptor and backdraft .. Would this transfer in a similar shape to the recon but on a heavier patterns? (hope I explained what I mean ok)
Basically I want the raptor, backdraft and recon to have similar shapes and reactions but on heavy, medium and light patterns?!?!
Your thoughts?

_________________
Cruel
Primal
QZ2
GT1
QZ1
Recon Silver
Recon (orange)
Alien Spare ball


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