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 Post subject: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Sat Sep 24, 2011 3:31 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Neenah, WI
I need help with Tour Sigma and Raptor layouts. I have been reading a LOT about the dual angle layouts and have come up with a bench mark of 52x43x4 1/2. Not real sure based on my rotation/tilt/speed if this is a good starting point for the TS. Any advice??

_________________
Guy Cruise
Neenah, WI


RH / 325 revs
PAP - 4 3/4 X 3/4up
Rotation - 40 degrees
Tilt - 24 degrees
Speed @ sensor - 16 mph


Raptor - 55 x 5 x 35 P3
Sigma Tour - 50 x 3.75 x 45


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 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:56 am 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 806
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
I will tell you that from my own experience, I am very fond of the shape the 40* val angle gives me in my house.

I think you are in the right area with those numbers to extract good hook and finish from either ball.

Just my 2 cents.

_________________
Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Mon Sep 26, 2011 9:43 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Neenah, WI
plamormick - thanks for the input. What kind of shape does the 40 VAL give you? I need something that when I move left I can still carry with. The problem I am having with my current equipment is I am late for the 1st transition so my back end reaction is a bit late thus when I have to move left I leave corners A LOT. Thanks.

_________________
Guy Cruise
Neenah, WI


RH / 325 revs
PAP - 4 3/4 X 3/4up
Rotation - 40 degrees
Tilt - 24 degrees
Speed @ sensor - 16 mph


Raptor - 55 x 5 x 35 P3
Sigma Tour - 50 x 3.75 x 45


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Tue Sep 27, 2011 12:23 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 806
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
in most of my symmetricals, a 40* val gives me a strong move at the break point that is still fairly manageable. It is quick, but not so jerky so as to become unpredictable.

I've tried 35* in one asym, but I don't like the response much. It is hard to believe that 5* for me makes the difference between hook hard and hook-set.

That being said, if you want a bit smoother, yet strong reaction, don't be afraid to put in a 45* val. I have a Primal that I went 45* by 5" by 45*, and it is phenomenal- the best reaction I've ever gotten out of a Thrust core ball, by far.

_________________
Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Thu Sep 29, 2011 11:31 am 

Joined: Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:04 am
Posts: 102
Location: Coldwater, Michigan
I too look for a nice, even, strong roll from my "benchmark" piece. My "benchmark" layout has always been 45 x 4 x 45. I then base and layout my other equipment from there. I always drill 2 stronger and 2 weaker and also understand then design and intent of the ball before I drill one. No sense in drilling a Raptor weak or a QZ2 Backdraft strong....not the design intent for either....IMHO. I have 2 PRIMALs that I love, SR2, Sigma Tour, Raptor, QZ2 BD and 2 CRUELs that I can always rely on and trust with everything.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:15 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Neenah, WI
Thanks for the input. Now I have a new problem, the house shot for league is crap I was standing 42 looking at 24 w/ 10 for break point. Outside 10 the ball will not move and if you square up to play outside of 10 the ball hooks at the arrows. I do not want to struggle for the next 28 weeks... New question is... the sigma will probably be way too strong so what would be a recommended ball for using on a worn wood surface where the mid lane hooks early and not much back end. Thanks

_________________
Guy Cruise
Neenah, WI


RH / 325 revs
PAP - 4 3/4 X 3/4up
Rotation - 40 degrees
Tilt - 24 degrees
Speed @ sensor - 16 mph


Raptor - 55 x 5 x 35 P3
Sigma Tour - 50 x 3.75 x 45


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Sat Oct 01, 2011 1:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 806
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
I don't know that the Sigma would be too much; just adjust the surface if this is the only place you bowl.

Sounds like more than just a lane surface issue; lane machine maintenance is so important, too. You only realize you have a problem once shadow balls start, and that's too late.

That being said, you're best bet will be to find a ball that can tumble a long way, and just tip a bit at the end, hopefully finding a roll thru the pins. The Sigma can be clean a long way, but still can produce an effective roll on the back end. You might just have to find a line that you can just 'pooch' the headpin and tip it back into the pocket. Kind of like a really long pattern, where you don't want to give the pocket away.

Maybe a 5 to 5 1/2 inch PAP to Pin distance, combined with a 45 to 55 degree val angle to promote more roll. Just because it's league play doesn't mean you can't be creative with your shot making. You'll dominate anyone who forgets that there are 6 more arrows on the lane, in addition to the 2nd arrow.

Tough lane conditions just mean you earn your scores more than others. You take pride in challenging yourself to stay clean when the lanes play tough.

_________________
Lane 13 Pro Shop, Iowa Falls, IA ............. Venom Shock * Recon
Proprietor, Pla-Mor Bowl ........................ GT1 * Covert Revolt.
Vise Grips Amateur Staff ......................... Sigma Sting * Tribal


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 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 2:09 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1701
Location: Rochester NY
gcruise815 wrote:
benchmark of 52x43x4 1/2.

RH
325 revs
PAP - 4 3/4 X 3/4up
Rotation - 40 degrees
Tilt - 24 degrees
Speed @ sensor - 16 mph


Pretty balanced with higher tilt.

Raptor: 55x35@5" P3 hole
Sig T: 50x45@3.75" Hole 2" down the VAL

Surface will be key to matching up to the tricky shot, most likely the raptor at 2k. On the 42' shot try to get the breakpoint further down the lane to get it out of the end of the pattern to combat the out of bounds.


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 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Sun Oct 02, 2011 8:05 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Neenah, WI
Thanks Justin & Plamormick. I will be trying to get the Tour Sigma punched out this week. Unfortunately I am traveling this week, but will let you know how it works out.

_________________
Guy Cruise
Neenah, WI


RH / 325 revs
PAP - 4 3/4 X 3/4up
Rotation - 40 degrees
Tilt - 24 degrees
Speed @ sensor - 16 mph


Raptor - 55 x 5 x 35 P3
Sigma Tour - 50 x 3.75 x 45


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Tour Sigma @ Raptor Layout Help
PostPosted: Mon Oct 10, 2011 1:38 pm 

Joined: Wed Jul 06, 2011 11:06 pm
Posts: 12
Location: Neenah, WI
I was looking at some drilling recommendations from Mo Pinel. He suggested for a low track player (PAP < 4.5) that a control drilling would be 65 x 5 1/4 x 35. What do you think about putting this in mt Sigma? Thanks


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