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 Post subject: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 9:13 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:55 am
Posts: 85
Location: Madison, WI
I am looking for layout thoughts for a 14 lb. Primal Impulse for ball during and after transition and as the lanes break down moving in.

My stats. are right hander with average speed 17 mph in heads and 14.5 - 15 at deck on CATS. 300 - 325 rpm's. Track diameter 11"s and axis tilt 17 deg. Axis rotation 45 - 60 deg. ave. 5" over & 0" PAP.

Thanks,
Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Mon Nov 28, 2011 10:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 02, 2009 4:01 pm
Posts: 526
Your stats are alittle similar to mine. You probably have a rev or two on me but the speed & tilts look close. I drilled mine 55 x 4.5 x 50 w/hole 2" down VAL. This put the pin in my ring finger, one of my favorite layouts. Easy thru the heads w/good 'pop' off the pattern. Definitely has a flip characteristic. Has a slight wiggle when I do not release it properly but when my timing & release is where it should be . . sweet!! I hope to soon get one with a 5"+ pin so I can drill it 45 x 5.25 x 35 w/pin 2"+ down VAL. I drilled a Sigma Tour w/this layout & I really love it! Reads the b/e of the mid's very well & makes a strong turn off the pattern. Hope this helps & stay MOTIV-ated!

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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 11:14 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
I'd tweak Bob's layout just a touch, 55x45@5". The longer pin will help it retain tilt a bit longer and get it a touch deeper into the friction when you have to swing it. I have seen larger VAL angles smooth the PI a bit. It seems 35-45* is the sweet spot.


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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:17 pm 

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:55 am
Posts: 85
Location: Madison, WI
Thanks for the input Bob and Justin!

I will report back after getting it drilled and with some findings.

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Wed Dec 07, 2011 6:42 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:55 am
Posts: 85
Location: Madison, WI
Got my PI drilled Monday night. 60*x5"x40* no x hole and 75*(pin to PSA)x5"x40* after being spun. You can see the PSA marked slightly down and left of the thumb.

First use last night after transition. Exactly what I was looking for and expected a great ball to go during after the fresh. 246. I can see that the PI is going to get a lot of use on the burn.

Great ball. Thanks to Bob and Justin for the help!

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 6:46 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:55 am
Posts: 85
Location: Madison, WI
Follow up on what I have seen using the PI this past week in 3 leagues with varying lane conditions and one tourney on Sat. Ball is pictured above in thread.

On the fresh lots of back end but overall ball motion is more of an arc nature than skid-flip. During and after transition and when head oil depletes and I am starting playing a trajectory of 11 arrows to 7 break point on fresh to 16 at arrows to 7 on more delpted heads and carried down back end I don't see the snap and continuation that I expected. This would be what I call a carried down lane condition. On fresh no problem but this not what I purchased this ball to fill this position.

My question is what changes should I make to surface as it is still OOB or x holes? I have access to a DeTerminatior but changing drilling angle to less than 60* will only allow it to change direction earlier.....correct? If that be so I am not sure adding an x hole will help all that much. If x hole is added better on the VAL line below the center line or on the gradient line?

What surface should I try on this type of lane condition where head oil is depleted and I am moving in to get length and get more continuation on back end?

Overall I like the ball and on flatter sport type conditions leaving it as is might be a good thing. I have toyed with this idea but this is not what I bought the ball for.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Sun Dec 11, 2011 11:48 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 804
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
I hope someone else might double check my thinking here, but if you actually ended up 15* more on the drill angle, it is easy to see why your ball might be going a little too long, even wiggling in the carry down. My PI was a bit squirty at first, too, but I quickly decided to add a P3 hole to enhance differential and add flare to the ball. The P3 hole would effectively nullify that added 15* of drill angle for your ball. l think you need the OOB finish to get that ball to the breakpoint cleanly, yet create a big move where you want it.

Just my 2 cents, as I have a similar ball (60* by 5 1/4" by 40*) situation. The P3 made my ball a bit stronger than originally experienced, and gave me the look I was after.

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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 12:11 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:55 am
Posts: 85
Location: Madison, WI
Just my 2 cents, as I have a similar ball (60* by 5 1/4" by 40*) situation. The P3 made my ball a bit stronger than originally experienced, and gave me the look I was after.

plamormick,

Is the 60* drilling angle pin to PSA or pin thru CG? The 75* drilling angle I listed is pin to PSA as you can see the PSA marker in the pic above in this thread,

I'd like to know more about how putting an x hole on the gradient line and making the drilling angle less say towards 55 to 60* would change strength at backend. I thought this was more about a stronger VAL angle?

Scott


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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:29 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
The pin to PSA line is also known as the pin to spin line. This is the minor axis of the elliptical RG contours. Once the PAP passes this line, it accelerates as it travels towards the major axis of the RG contour.

Reducing the drilling angle by placing a hole between the PSA and VAL will create an axis precession acceleration earlier in the ball path. This can help fix laborious backend motion. As spun, your PSA is located on the left of the thumb. A hole placed between the PSA and VAL will result in a more pronounced backend reaction by crating this acceleration sooner. Not as soon as a hole 2" down the VAL, but that has a good chance of smoothing it too much. I would keep the hole low in order to keep the VAL angle as large as possible to promote continuation.


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 Post subject: Re: Primal Impulse Layout
PostPosted: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:39 am 

Joined: Mon Aug 10, 2009 6:55 am
Posts: 85
Location: Madison, WI
The pin to PSA line is also known as the pin to spin line. This is the minor axis of the elliptical RG contours. Once the PAP passes this line, it accelerates as it travels towards the major axis of the RG contour.

Reducing the drilling angle by placing a hole between the PSA and VAL will create an axis precession acceleration earlier in the ball path. This can help fix laborious backend motion. As spun, your PSA is located on the left of the thumb. A hole placed between the PSA and VAL will result in a more pronounced backend reaction by crating this acceleration sooner. Not as soon as a hole 2" down the VAL, but that has a good chance of smoothing it too much. I would keep the hole low in order to keep the VAL angle as large as possible to promote continuation.


Jason,

P2 or P3? Placing an x hole at P2 or P3 should not effect the VAL angle...correct?

Scott


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