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 Post subject: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 1:46 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:24 pm
Posts: 64
Justin, im starting to feel bad for you, as it seems all the help you've provided many with, seems to be close to another fulltime job for you. But i know from talking to you in the past both here and on the phone, that you're all about motivating our community, so let me ask this. My tr2 has been plugged twice now, original drilling created too much length with very little recovery. Dont know the specifics other than the pin being way above bridge probably 2.5". Had it plugged and went with the stacked leverage drilling, with a 3 3/8" pin to pap for a medium track player straight from motivs drill sheet. This gave me a better look, but i really needed to bring the surface to 4k abralon and then polished to the max to keep it from burning up in the mids, which resulted in sub par carry leaving many flat ten pins. Now its been plugged again, and ultimately i want to be able to use it on my THS leagues (brunswick pro anvil) lanes, but at its out of box surface, or at least close to its original 800 grit surface. Reason being, is how i had it last; 4k polished, it gave me a very similar reaction to my sx1 and my newly acquired tx1. I really want to be able to open up the lanes with it, something i have yet been able to do with any ball to date.

Specs are, 16-17 mph, stroker.
PAP- 4 13/16" right and 1" up
Rev rate and speed match up well. So i wouldnt say im either a rev dominant player nor a speed dominant player.
My most comfortable line is feet at 22 rolling over 12-13 at the arrows to around the 6-7 board, swinging it just outside of the last range finder.
The goal is the play further inside. Like feet at 25-30 over 17-18 board to 10.

Hows this sound....? 45 x 60 @ 4.75


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 9:36 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
Any chance at a pic? It sounds like it went from one extreme to the other, a lengthy pattern to straight leverage. You are on the right track with your proposed layout.


Thank you for the kind words, I try to help out as best I can. Hopefully my suggestions help people improve their games. Your situations were very fortunate, and congratulations again on your exceptional bowling.




P.S. I cheat, I have email notifications of all posts made on the forums, so I can either jump on a PC and check it out, or read it right on my droid. Usually posting from the droid sucks tho because I can't get the color right. I have trouble remembering the exact HTML tag for my teal.


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Wed Aug 25, 2010 2:45 pm 

Joined: Thu Jul 15, 2010 4:51 pm
Posts: 4
Keep trying to get it right with your TR2. I've been throwing one for about a month and absolutely love it. I'm similar to you as far as being a stroker, but I tend to lean towards speed dominant at 18 mph. I have it drilled for maximum hook but my speed, and somewhat oily lanes, keeps it from burning up.

Good luck and I can't wait to finally pick up my Cruel Fri., pin up and polished for more length. I think a nice 1-2 punch.


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:28 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:24 pm
Posts: 64
Holy hell is the cruel strong.... what an awesome ball. Justin, i can finally play inside of 3rd arrow now. Thank you so very much, for everything. Now is it even possible that wern drilled correctly the tr2 can be even stronger than the cruel? Thats hard to fathom....


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Sat Aug 28, 2010 12:30 pm 

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:24 pm
Posts: 64
Justin i'll try a pic of my tr2 next time im at the lanes.


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Tue Sep 07, 2010 11:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
Technically, the Cruel has both a stronger block and stronger cover than the TR2. Given equal circumstances and the right drilling, the TR2 could potentially conserve a bit more energy and appear to hook more once it encounters friction. That is splitting hairs a bit, but yes it could happen.


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Thu Sep 09, 2010 11:45 am 

Joined: Mon Apr 12, 2010 12:24 pm
Posts: 64
Well then, with that comment on the two being about equally strong. I'd actually prefer to keep the TR2 at the box finish (800 wet sand I believe) but drill it rather weak. Would that be completely counter-productive? Believe it or not I find my TX1 to be just a hair less than my Cruel. I'll line up the Motiv balls that I now own in order from strongest to weakest as per the layouts and my own personal opinion:
1- Cruel
2- TX1
3- GT1
4- TR2 (see below)
5- SX1

Ladies and Gentlemen, please keep in mind the problems I've had with the TR2, which is why I listed it so low in my list (strongest - to - weakest)... That's why I'm in need of a good layout for it, as I'm going to be drilling it up for its third time. Hence my reason for creating this thread.

Keep all the suggestions coming, I'd like to use this ball ASAP, as it is my only 14lber, and I'm having some elbow pain during my backswing. And I've got my $$$ money league tonight $$$

Thanks Motiv, and all who are motivated for life.

And I'd like to send a very special thanks out to Justin Wyman, (I hope I spelled your name correct) for all the time and help he's put in helping me get my game and layouts straightened out.

THANKS AGAIN, AS ALWAYS JUSTIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Sean


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 12:45 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
I have tried 3 different layouts on the TR2. Pin over the middle finger, stack at 4.5", and pin under the bridge kicked out. Favorite of the 3 for me is pin under the bridge. The stack I wouldn't ever find enough oil to make it usable. The negative pin was good, but it was a bit more condition specific than my QZ1 red.

I like your idea, but may tweak the drilling angle to clear the fronts a bit 55x60@4.75


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 Post subject: Re: Tr2 layout suggestion: Justin, what we do w/o you???
PostPosted: Tue Sep 21, 2010 10:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
Any change of mass in a ball will have an effect on it's dynamics. Unless you replace the material with the exact densities you will absolutely change the mass properties. Now the variability to this is, how much. With cores like the Thrust that have a thin mid section, you will take out less core mass with the thumb. Small oval fingers that don't penetrate too deep will also take out less mass. I have drilled balls for myself that the holes only barely touch the core, so many of my balls have the entire core intact. Folks that use 31/32 inserts and switch grips aren't so lucky.

Without an RG swing to actually measure the new dynamic specifications, you can only make a generalized guess. Large finger holes near the pin will slightly reduce the High RG and lower the total diff. Now keep in mind, even the first time you drill a ball you change its mass properties. This is why you see an R+D shift from focusing on the undrilled specs, to the specs of a drilled ball.

I do slightly adjust my layout recommendations on plugged balls, but without an RG swing it is hardly an exact science.


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