It is unrealistic to expect every OOB setup to work just so every time. There is nothing wrong with dialing in a surface to suit your game or your playing environment.

And believe me, even if the surface prep were the identical same, there is a world of difference between the ball motions of the Cruel and the Raptor. Even the same layout would produce different results.

Play around, experiment, dial it in. Nothing worth doing is ever easy. The results you can obtain from the extra work will be worth the effort I assure you.

Keep on strikin'!

yea right

"And believe me, even if the surface prep were the identical same, there is a world of difference between the ball motions of the Cruel and the Raptor. Even the same layout would produce different results."

I have my Raptor and Cruel LE with same layout and cover stock finish. 500/2000 wet sand, PWP. On the fresh THS, my Raptor play 4 and 2 inside my Cruel LE. The Cruel LE will go longer.

A side question... what happens to the action when the pin to pap distance varies from 3~5" for both symm and asymm, while the angles( let's say 40 by 40) remain the same? I found several answers on the web

The way I understand it, as picking up most of the information here from Justin, who was sharing information gleaned from the bowlingchat.net forum is:

Asymmetric cores flare the same amount within that range; they maintain tilt longer with shorter pin-to-PAP distances versus getting into more forward roll as you head toward the 6" mark.

Symmetrical cores experience the maximum amount of flare as you move toward 3 3/8", and the flare starts to decrease as you increase the pin-to-PAP distance from there. For me, I visualize the core as being the most out of balance at 3 and 3/8" (or the point at which the pin is exactly halfway between the initial track and the PAP). The core will tend to get to balance point as you move away from that point: shortening the pin-to-PAP distance puts the block into more of a barrel-roll position; increasing the distance stands the core up, so that it tends to flip end over end.

Does this help?

Thanks for the information. I got most of it clearly.

So in other words, shorter pin to pap on Asymm balls would result a longer tilt which can translate to longer transition time for phase 1 and/or phase 2 due to a barrel-roll scenario instead of flipping?

Perhaps this explains why my previous raptor drill plays funny at 3".

thanks!