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 Post subject: Case Study: 120x15@4" Cruel layout
PostPosted: Fri Sep 17, 2010 2:22 am 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
I finished plugging my test Cruel, and drilled it with the 120x15@4" layout. The 6" version was going to be near impossible to get legal due to excessive negative side and finger without a risky hole placement:

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After drilling the fingers to china, I was able to get the finger out. It ended up with 3/4oz finger, 7/8oz negative side. The finish is box surface, 2000 Abralon.

I took with me 3 very differently drilled Cruels:
#1) 120x15@4", no hole:
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#2) 70x45@2.5", P2 hole:
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#3) 60x70@4.75", no hole:
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For this session I shot 5 games. I used all 3 balls the first game while I warmed up and got a feel for the lanes. The next 4 games I used each ball until I didn't strike with it then changed to another. I threw a 234, 227, 269 and 180. The 180 was due to a couple of splits. The 269 was thrown with #2 and #3. #3 was the strongest by far, by 10 boards with my feet. I ended up standing 42 over 22 by the end. #2 gave me the best look of the 3. It didn't check early and jump when I missed out, and it held when I missed in. #1 was 3 boards less than #2, but had more bounce off the friction. #2 and #3 had the Motiv sound, #1 did occasionally.

With #1 the carry was flaky, and this was the most noticeable quality. If I missed right and the ball burned its energy, it made it back to the pocket but deflected through the rack and left flat 10s and weak 7s. If I pulled it into the oil it did tip enough to carry the 10. I threw vicious messengers with #2 and #3, not one with #1. The traits seen are consistent with a ball with mass on the negative. There is a reason Mo recommends against drilling angles in excess of 90 degrees, and sacrificing carry is one of them.

In summary, I can see this layout working for a select few. If you are extremely rev dominant, throw 2 handed, or want to use a Cruel on drier shots than it is intended for, give it a shot. With some polish I could see it working on said drier conditions. It isn't for everyone, and if I have to strike to win $10k I wouldn't trust it, but for a drier house shot it makes the Cruel usable. In my opinion a QZ1 or SR2 drilled with a more standard layout would be a better choice.

I'll work on a vid to show the differences between the 4 layouts I have, but it may take a couple of weeks.


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 Post subject: Re: Case Study: 120x15@4" Cruel layout
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 4:28 pm 

Joined: Thu Nov 19, 2009 1:50 pm
Posts: 487
Justin,that was a Cruel thing you did to that ball.
Thanks for taking the time to dissect that drilling for us.

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Angela Wilt:MOTIV Staff Member


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 Post subject: Re: Case Study: 120x15@4" Cruel layout
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 5:31 pm 

Joined: Tue Aug 31, 2010 6:26 pm
Posts: 77
Dear Justin,
Thanks for the review but you did not give the drilling the justice it deserves. You did not drill it the way I recommended. Instead of drilling the finger holes "to China" you should have drilled the weight hole 3" from the pin like displayed in the video. The finger holes should only be 2 1/2" deep and as you know weight holes are very important and can be destructive if not placed in the proper location. Thanks for trying my drill but will you please attempt to make the necessary adjustments to make the ball work properly.

I love your imput on the Motiv board. Your insight is very important to the people of Motiv.

Jim Huddleston
Motiv Staff Member


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 Post subject: Re: Case Study: 120x15@4" Cruel layout
PostPosted: Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:59 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
hudwood wrote:
Dear Justin,
Thanks for the review but you did not give the drilling the justice it deserves. You did not drill it the way I recommended. Instead of drilling the finger holes "to China" you should have drilled the weight hole 3" from the pin like displayed in the video. The finger holes should only be 2 1/2" deep and as you know weight holes are very important and can be destructive if not placed in the proper location. Thanks for trying my drill but will you please attempt to make the necessary adjustments to make the ball work properly.

I love your imput on the Motiv board. Your insight is very important to the people of Motiv.

Jim Huddleston
Motiv Staff Member


The CG ended up on the left of the fingers, and above. Before drilling the fingers deep it had 1.5oz of finger and 7/8 negative side. Placing the hole in your recommended place would have resulted in illegal negative side.

I'm not sure whether or not you have a properly calibrated Kaufman scale in your shop, or even bother to use it, but in 9 cases out of 10 when you have a negative CG as you will with this layout, adding a weight hole on the VAL will push it illegal.

If you can give me a reasonable explanation how you suggest I make "adjustments" to this layout and keep the ball legal, I'm all for it.

Primary factors of this layout go against all current ball drilling science. The drilling angle is absurdly high, and the hole placement is in a region that has no predictable effect.

This layout is highly not recommended except in a few extreme cases. The reaction in your video is suspect, as the lefty demonstrating barely gets the 5 out in a few shots. This reaction through the pins is consistent with my findings. There is a reason there are limits as to how you drill a ball.

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, this needs to be put to rest. I have given it a shot, drilled a ball with the layout, and given my unbiased findings.



My final word on this layout is this:

If you are extremely rev dominant or bowling on dry conditions, have an extra Cruel to tinker with, and are very precise with your static weights, by all means go for it. Otherwise, stick to layouts and hole placements that are within the recommended guidelines for optimum performance. The disclaimer on this forum applies(the same one that applies to any of my recommendations):


Motiv Bowling wrote:
DISCLAIMER: The layouts and drilling ideas discussed in this forum are NOT endorsed by MOTIV Bowling. We are not responsible if a creative layout recommended on this forum turns your high performance ball into a door stop.


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 Post subject: Re: Case Study: 120x15@4" Cruel layout
PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:23 am 

Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2010 12:17 am
Posts: 11
Justin I believe you're getting a little pissy in your old age...(probably get that from Mark) lol. It's hard to be the bearer of light when everyone chooses to wear sunglasses...... Seriously though, you have a wealth of knowledge keep spreading it around brother!


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