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 Post subject: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 10:50 pm 

Joined: Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:18 pm
Posts: 23
Whats going on guys?

I have some concerns/questions regarding the Sigma Hybrid.

I guess I'll start by saying that the ball hits extremely soft for me. I have a ton of hand, my ball speed is 17 mph, & I also throw 14lb equipment.

I've never had a 14lb ball hit as soft as this one does. There's absolutely zero pop in the pocket.

I would expect this from maybe a Freeze or a Tropical Storm... but a high-end ball? It has me concerned. I had a 14lb Global Hook... the ball hit like a truck compared to this thing.

Now I have 2 other friends also throwing the Hybrid... one also throws 14lbs & the other 15lbs... all 3 of us are crankers & right around the same in ball speed. Their Sigmas seem to hit better than mine.

I have tweaked the cover at least 5 times on the Hybrid. I have it at a spot now where I can throw it on the condition I need to. But its frustrating that when I actually do get to throw the ball, its a marshmallow. Its not even fun to throw. Its not rolling out or burning up. Its making the move where its supposed to. I'm at the point to where my next move is either a redrill or its going on ebay/ball reviews & see if someone else can have some better luck with it.

So I guess what I'm asking is... is it possible I got a dud? My entire arsenal is Motiv. I have had some success with the Hybrid.. shot a 750 with it one night... but overall the ball has less than 10 games on it. Theres nights where I'll start with it cause it looks good in practice & then 4 or 5 frames later, it goes back in the bag. & not because its not moving like I want it to.

So there you have it.. has anyone else had a problem like this with a Sigma Hybrid? Any recommendations?

I also havent picked up a 2 Cruel yet. The 2 Cruel is the same cover as the Hybrid correct? Not sure If I want to go down that road again after the experience I'm having with this ball.

This isnt an attack on Motiv. I support the brand through & through... just having difficulty with this particular piece of equipment & searching for some answers. Maybe there isnt an actual answer. Maybe this ball & just arent meant to be?

Thanks for any feedback.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Tue Sep 04, 2012 11:58 pm 

Joined: Wed Sep 22, 2010 12:14 am
Posts: 800
Location: Iowa Falls, IA
1. I don't know your current surface or your cleaning and maintenance routine, but could your ball be soaked? I know that there are times the Atomix cover doesn't like carry down around here.

2. The 2Cruel cover is a whole new other beast. The Whiplash cover is AMAZING! This is the cover some of us have clamored for for quite some time (read: 'rev challenged' and need help with back-end pop). The SigH is still Atomix, which was the cover used on the SigT, the Primal Impulse and the Raptor Attack.

I would be confused and flummoxed as well-- if the ball is reading correctly, it should hit. Depending on your layout, maybe a plug/re-drill is in order. I saved one SigH from eBay by giving it a 50 by 5" by 70 layout, which makes it smooth and easy. I also have 1000 grit Abralon with PGPolish on it. It hits much nicer now. The old layout was a 3" pin to PAP layout, and it hit terribly.

That's my experience; your mileage may vary.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:35 pm 

Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2011 5:28 pm
Posts: 235
Location: Pa
The Cover on the 2 cruel is completely new and unused on any of the previous equipment. To explain it hitting like a marshmellow I would probably attribute it to roll out even though you may not feel
That is the answer. I am pretty far up the back of the ball and I barely find use for my sigma tour's let alone my hybrids. I excel with higher rg equipment and anything with a cleaner cover like the attack and 2 cruel. Try throwing a coat of polish over your current surface. I actually like mine with the motiv scuff compound it let's it read a little cleaner on the lane.

Also there are just certain pin distances that bowlers are not going to be able to use. I have an ascent solid at 3 inches which is a pretty clean ball and it's still really conditional because of my limited amount of axis rotation. Sometimes ya just dont match up unfortunately. I'd suggest a plug redrill.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Thu Sep 06, 2012 9:48 am 

Joined: Tue Jan 04, 2011 3:09 pm
Posts: 331
Location: Metro Detroit
AgBowling wrote:
Also there are just certain pin distances that bowlers are not going to be able to use.


This is absolutely TRUE. Every ball I've drilled with under 3" pin placement has pretty much been junk for me. I drilled a Primal with 2.5" pin and it hit terrible, re-drilled it for a team mate to get him to try MOTIV equipment. He now throws MOTIV exclusively so the ball was not a dud. I think you might have a layout or ball spec issue. Just my thoughts.

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 Post subject: Re: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Fri Sep 07, 2012 11:44 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:26 pm
Posts: 30
Jellert1 wrote:
This is absolutely TRUE. Every ball I've drilled with under 3" pin placement has pretty much been junk for me. I drilled a Primal with 2.5" pin and it hit terrible, re-drilled it for a team mate to get him to try MOTIV equipment. He now throws MOTIV exclusively so the ball was not a dud. I think you might have a layout or ball spec issue. Just my thoughts.


Why on God's green Earth would you knowingly drill something with 2.5-3 inches away from PAP? I mean unless you wanted it to bleed off all of it's reaction? 3 3/8", from what I've been taught in my experience with drilling/layouts/etc - is used to "maximize" flare potential and maximizing strength of core. Anything less than 3 3/8 would cause the core to bleed off everything and basically puke reaction wise going down-lane as the ball would be "getting into it's roll" as soon as it hit the surface of the lane. :shock:

In response to the original poster - surface is a catastrophic thing with this ball in my hands. I too had hit issues when I originally drilled it. Threw it @ Box Surface on a 'THS for about 6 frames when I finally cognitively processed that this ball was not intended to be made for house shots. After testing many different surfaces/add polish/etc etc - I have found that 4000 wet sand has been the best and most optimal. This ball is extremely important on surface-maintening, so be sure to wipe oil off between shots with microfiber and establish a regiment of cleaning. Just my $0.02

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 Post subject: Re: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Sun Sep 09, 2012 6:54 am 

Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 4:07 pm
Posts: 23
@skid,
One can drill a ball with a 2.5 in pin is if they are trying to reduce flare. Its mostly used to control the backend as you will take weight away from the ball and put the ball on axis quicker. Ball will start a bit sooner and roll on the backend. On a primal TV4, it may not have been the greatest idea. That ball was made to play the lanes straighter so if you were not maximizing flare, you would want longer pin to pap to reduce flare or a bigger drill angle to promote length in the friction.

@BDC300,
Sounds like there is either too much carry down or not enough oil in the front part of the lane to get the ball down the lane. The ball may look good going down lane but with no head oil the ball is burning and with carrydown and energy bled the balls going to hit the pins like a fluffer turd. That is the reason why the freeze hits better. Weaker cover and its easier getting through the heads and not burning up as bad as the hybrid. Also you being a cranker with a 14lb ball, you have to be careful with ball speed. Its very easy to push the ball through the break point and the balls core numbers are slightly weaker than that of 15. Not in all cases but some. Apply surface to the hybrid, start at 2000 and work your way up (1500,1000) throwing each until you find one you like one. To coin a "moism", "hide the f'n polish with this one." Hope it helps and good bowling.
@

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 Post subject: Re: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:53 pm 

Joined: Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:26 pm
Posts: 30
Strokelefty wrote:
@skid,
One can drill a ball with a 2.5 in pin is if they are trying to reduce flare. Its mostly used to control the backend as you will take weight away from the ball and put the ball on axis quicker. Ball will start a bit sooner and roll on the backend. On a primal TV4, it may not have been the greatest idea. That ball was made to play the lanes straighter so if you were not maximizing flare, you would want longer pin to pap to reduce flare or a bigger drill angle to promote length in the friction.


I understand now - maybe we just do things differently where I work. I always go longer Pin to PAP to reduce flair. Because the closer you come to PAP, the more work load you are putting on the core earlier having it burn up energy earlier causing it to "minimize flare" but also considerably do less on the backend of the lane.

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The Bowler's Shop - Anderson, IN
"Now That's Money!!!"


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 Post subject: Re: Sigma Hybrid - Question/Concern
PostPosted: Mon Sep 10, 2012 4:32 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 27, 2009 10:43 pm
Posts: 1698
Location: Rochester NY
With asymmetrical balls pin positions of 2.75" to 6.75" produce a very similar amount of track flare, 6.75" is a tick more than 2.75". The big difference is in tilt retention. Closer Pin to PAP on asymmetrical balls results in longer tilt retention, while longer pin to PAP results in a ball losing tilt very quickly. This is handy for high tilt players on longer patterns that find it difficult to strike.

With symmetrical balls flare is maximized near 3.5". Shorter Pin to PAP distances result in very short tilt retention. For many this loss of tilt is what produces the forward roll, not terribly continuous ball motion often associated with short Pin to PAP distances. For higher tilt players, sometimes short pin to PAP layouts can be the only way to get a ball to transition properly and strike for them, even on house shots.


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